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True LOS - Realistic Battle Distances

2 years 2 months ago #31 by Davinci

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  • No. He occupies as many pixels as is his original drawn size times the scale modifier in unitpack. He's like a house. His size doesn't change when UnitPerYard is changed.

    Ten Four! Thanks!

    I think that I follow most of this.

    But, if changing the ( 30 ) to ( 60 ) slowed down My Computer, Now I'm on a quest to see if lowering that number provides a few more FPS.

    davinci

    The only true logic is that, there is no true logic!
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    2 years 2 months ago #32 by RebBugler

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  • But, if changing the ( 30 ) to ( 60 ) slowed down My Computer, Now I'm on a quest to see if lowering that number provides a few more FPS.

    davinci


    I predict so, but it will also shorten engagement ranges and such, and compress your formations to shorter distances between rows and columns. The movement speeds will also slow down.

    Still, modding will equalize most of this stuff, just a matter of how much modding your willing to go through to re-establish your norms, for the sake of gaining a few FPS rates. If I know you, you'll at least give it a shot. :)

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    2 years 2 months ago #33 by Davinci

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  • Still, modding will equalize most of this stuff, just a matter of how much modding your willing to go through to re-establish your norms, for the sake of gaining a few FPS rates. If I know you, you'll at least give it a shot. :)

    Yes, already On it.

    I am just dropping it ( 2 ) at a time, and then readjusting the formations from there. So I am now at ( 26 ).

    *** So, How is Your Project going?

    Running into any major problems?

    davinci

    The only true logic is that, there is no true logic!
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    2 years 2 months ago #34 by RebBugler

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  • *** So, How is Your Project going?

    Running into any major problems?

    davinci


    Ha, finding enough errors with formations to merit an update soon. Thought I had included all the stock formations with B&F but I missed some, so they didn't get converted for this mod.

    No major issues as of yet that I've seen, and none reported, however, no positive reports either.

    I think that this mod has nice replay value for folks that want to replay their favorite scenarios or sandbox setups with 'New Rules of Engagement', that is, experiencing 'True Battle Distances'. Regardless of popularity, this mod is a step toward SR1 play. Time, enthusiasm, and gained know-how will determine whether I take that leap.

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    2 years 2 months ago #35 by Davinci

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  • This mod is a step toward SR1 play. Time, enthusiasm, and gained know-how will determine whether I take that leap.

    I was under the impression that the whole purpose of UnitsPerYard was to stack units on top of each other, or another way of saying that this One-Soldier is really Ten-Soldiers.

    So, if this is designed for "Single \ SR1" Soldiers - Why isn't the UnitsPerYard=1?

    There is Only One Unit in that particular yard of space.

    This has to be the most confusing part of Modding that I remember, I just can't see what everyone else is seeing.

    davinci

    The only true logic is that, there is no true logic!
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    2 years 2 months ago #36 by RebBugler

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  • This mod is a step toward SR1 play. Time, enthusiasm, and gained know-how will determine whether I take that leap.

    I was under the impression that the whole purpose of UnitsPerYard was to stack units on top of each other, or another way of saying that this One-Soldier is really Ten-Soldiers.

    So, if this is designed for "Single \ SR1" Soldiers - Why isn't the UnitsPerYard=1?

    There is Only One Unit in that particular yard of space.

    This has to be the most confusing part of Modding that I remember, I just can't see what everyone else is seeing.

    davinci


    UnitsPerYard represents the number of pixels per yard, not sprites.

    UnitsPerYard=62, as established with this mod, expands the scaled (stock) value of UnitsPerYard=30 so that battle distances are now equivalent to true distances. So, now when you see two opposing units engaged at 150 yards you will see, or imagine, a football field and a half between them. Not a half football field distance as with stock scaling. This expansion to true distances is key to moving on towards SR1 play.

    The next step will be by enlarging the present select (2.5 mile) stock maps to true battlefield distances. I've got ideas on how to establish true battlefield distances on an expanded map but will reserve them for a new thread along with lots of beginning map making questions.

    Hopefully you'll understand this concept better then and can assist this quest. Regardless, I know you'll be on top of my map design questions, as it's just in your nature to lend a helping hand. This forum is quite fortunate to have a Davinci. :)

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    2 years 2 months ago - 2 years 2 months ago #37 by Davinci

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  • UnitsPerYard represents the number of pixels per yard, not sprites.

    Thanks, Now I'm starting to Understand that better!

    I probably need to get the coordinates of "Said Unit" using the ( 30 ).

    And then get the coordinates of that same unit by using the value of ( 60 ), to really see what is happening.

    This should change the coordinates, correct?

    Or am I once again walking down the wrong path!

    davinci

    The only true logic is that, there is no true logic!
    Last edit: 2 years 2 months ago by Davinci.
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    2 years 2 months ago #38 by Jolly

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  • Looking forward to any progress on this RB. I'm following this with real interest as to what can be achieved.

    Thanks,

    David(jolly)
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    2 years 2 months ago #39 by RebBugler

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  • I probably need to get the coordinates of "Said Unit" using the ( 30 ).

    And then get the coordinates of that same unit by using the value of ( 60 ), to really see what is happening.

    This should change the coordinates, correct?

    Or am I once again walking down the wrong path!

    davinci


    I'm guessing no, since this is a virtual map resizing, not a physical one.

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    2 years 2 months ago #40 by Davinci

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  • I'm guessing no, since this is a virtual map resizing, not a physical one.

    And "You" are Absolutely Correct!

    This is the darn-est Mystery, I just can't seem to figure out!

    davinci

    The only true logic is that, there is no true logic!

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    2 years 2 months ago #41 by Davinci

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  • "Reb" - I don't think that this is a LOS Setting, it is more of a Draw Distance Setting.

    So, if this setting is set at ( 1 ), the camera will only draw a certain distance away from the point of the camera, and it has nothing to do with the location of the men on the field.

    I can move the camera away from the units and the Draw Distance is still extremely limited.

    Also, this Setting affects everything on the Map, houses, fences, crops, trees, and the men.

    The higher the Setting, the greater the draw distance, which is why the view of units away from you are shown on the map, but also it probably draws a lot more of the trees, grass, crops, houses, fences, etc...

    Set it to a ( 1 ), without changing any of the other files, and see if you still reach the same conclusion.

    davinci

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    2 years 2 months ago - 2 years 2 months ago #42 by RebBugler

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  • I'm guessing no, since this is a virtual map resizing, not a physical one.

    And "You" are Absolutely Correct!

    This is the darn-est Mystery, I just can't seem to figure out!

    davinci


    Read MTG's explanations again, took me a while, but I finally figured it out, I think.

    Regarding your quest for better FPS rates for your BIG Army setups, instead of messing with the 'UnitsPerYard' numbers, have you tried just changing the Max Visibility number that regulates your gameplay preferences? Pretty sure this is how FPS rates are increased when the 'UnitsPerYard' number is decreased. So, any process to decrease overall visibility will increase FPS rates, hence, go with the easiest process.

    Since you prefer Sandbox play, change the sandbox.ini file in the Work folder, visibility line (Weather=2) to a lower visibility. You can also decrease the visibility numbers in the unitattributes file to increase FPS rates even more, although you probably know at least this part.

    Anyway, some ideas for better FPS

    Edit: Reworded this message after discovering the Weather line in the sandbox.ini file

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    2 years 2 months ago #43 by Davinci

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  • Regarding your quest for better FPS rates for your BIG Army setups, instead of messing with the 'UnitsPerYard' numbers, have you tried just changing the Max Visibility number that regulates your gameplay preferences? Pretty sure this is how FPS rates are increased when the 'UnitsPerYard' number is decreased. So, any process to decrease overall visibility will increase FPS rates, hence, go with the easiest process.

    Yes, I Agree!

    I think that I'm just going to leave it at ( 26 ), and go find something else to mess with!

    The ( 5 FPS ) is only when the two hundred thousand men are marching, once the marching is over and the units are fighting the FPS goes up, but I have always played like that. No Complaints here!

    Thanks,

    davinci

    The only true logic is that, there is no true logic!
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    2 years 2 months ago #44 by RebBugler

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  • Update 1.1, August 11, 2019, fixes some formation errors

    Also changed the name of this mod to clarify its function...It's not 'Realistic Battleground Distances', its 'Realistic Battle Distances'. 'Realistic Battleground Distances' along with 'Realistic Battle Distances' will be coming with my next mod - True Distances, already in progress.

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    2 years 2 months ago #45 by Davinci

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  • Update 1.1, August 11, 2019, fixes some formation errors

    Reb - before you put a hundred hours into this, You should Send "Norb" a "PM" and see if he can explain exactly what this change does.

    I'm still under the impression that it is an advanced "Draw Distance Setting".

    davinci

    The only true logic is that, there is no true logic!
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    2 years 2 months ago - 2 years 2 months ago #46 by RebBugler

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  • Update 1.1, August 11, 2019, fixes some formation errors

    Reb - before you put a hundred hours into this, You should Send "Norb" a "PM" and see if he can explain exactly what this change does.

    I'm still under the impression that it is an advanced "Draw Distance Setting".

    davinci


    I won't be furthering this mod or using 'UnitPerYard=62' for another, it's served its purpose with this mod in making true battle distances a pretty fast and easy build. In the quest for true battleground distances, my experiments with scaling up maps using 'UnitPerYard=62' were a bust, so I'm going the true path to true distances by scaling down the sprites and map objects with my next mod. So far it's working out, but at the rate I'm going now, it may take months to scale down and reset all the fences.

    Since this mod will take so long just for one map, I'll start a thread soon regarding it's purpose, progress, and mainly provide for a 'map questions' place for me to ask for help. I've got a bunch of questions already, but I'll save them for that thread.

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    2 years 2 months ago - 2 years 2 months ago #47 by Davinci

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  • So far it's working out, but at the rate I'm going now, it may take months to scale down and reset all the fences.

    Reb - depending on the Map in question - I might be able to assist you if the fences are the worm-fences.

    This will only work if you are only adjusting the heights and not the length.

    I might be able to use a "HexEditor" and change thousands of fences in only a few seconds.

    Two things that I need to know!

    1) Which Map?
    2) What is the New Height that you are using on the fences?

    davinci

    The only true logic is that, there is no true logic!
    Last edit: 2 years 2 months ago by Davinci.
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    2 years 2 months ago #48 by RebBugler

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  • So far it's working out, but at the rate I'm going now, it may take months to scale down and reset all the fences.

    Reb - depending on the Map in question - I might be able to assist you if the fences are the worm-fences.

    This will only work if you are only adjusting the heights and not the length.

    I might be able to use a "HexEditor" and change thousands of fences in only a few seconds.

    Two things that I need to know!

    1) Which Map?
    2) What is the New Height that you are using on the fences?

    davinci


    Just height won't do, they'll lose their realistic look. Interesting idea though, if all three parameters could be batch-scaled, at 0.5, then those scaled fences could be selected, duplicated and moved to the adjacent spaces created by the 0.5 scaling procedure. Then again, might have to scale them larger so they'd overlap properly, a concern, since the troop sprite scaling is set, and can't be scaled up without upsetting battle distances. IOW, all scaling is based on soldier sprite size.

    Anyway, thanks for the suggestion, I would like to check out that "HexEditor" for possibilities. :)

    ...Working on Devils Den, since you asked, objects are scaled at 0.5, soldier sprites slightly smaller, they were divided by 2.15 (the arrived at magic number for true distances), whatever that percentage is, probably around 0.48. These different scales work OK for me since I've always observed the soldiers being slightly too large for the objects in the stock game.

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    2 years 2 months ago #49 by Davinci

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  • Just height won't do, they'll lose their realistic look. Interesting idea though, if all three parameters could be batch-scaled, at 0.5,

    They are Worm-Fences - Not telling you anything that you don't know, but it's just wooden planks stacked on top of each other.

    Now, the Rail-Fences - might not appear correctly, here is a picture using the HexEditor to change 32,618 worm fences in 2 seconds.

    The picture on the Left - the size I am using, the picture on the Right - a larger size.

    But, all of the fences "Only" use the first two values, the "Third Value" is thickness which is "Not" use by the game or the PR Engine as far as the fences go.



    davinci

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    2 years 2 months ago #50 by RebBugler

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  • The ideal fix would be to replace (batch process) the stock worm fence segment with two scaled down (0.5) and linked worm fence segments.

    I see available Hex Editor apps on line. Do you have a recommendation I can check out safely?

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    2 years 2 months ago - 2 years 2 months ago #51 by Davinci

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  • The ideal fix would be to replace (batch process) the stock worm fence segment with two scaled down (0.5) and linked worm fence segments.

    I doubt that that is possible, considering that the "terrain.lvl" file would have to be "Hacked" since that is the file that is storing all of this information.

    An how would anyone Code the "Batch Process" to move the fences to the left or the right when a lot of them are just randomly placed where the "Map Designer" thought that they should appear.

    I don't think that you are understanding the value of the "HexEditor" in this situation.

    As of Now, you have to Open every single fence and change the first two values which takes a lot of time.

    If All of them were reduce in size, You would save hundreds of hours by just moving them either left or right too reconnect them together, and then just "Duplicate" some-more to fill in the gaps.

    I see available Hex Editor apps on line. Do you have a recommendation I can check out safely?

    I use the "XVI32" since its the first one that I started using years ago, but I think that All of them do just about the same thing.

    Try to find one that doesn't have an Expire Date - You know, No Trial Version!

    davinci

    The only true logic is that, there is no true logic!
    Last edit: 2 years 2 months ago by Davinci.
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    2 years 2 months ago - 2 years 2 months ago #52 by Davinci

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  • ...Working on Devils Den, since you asked, objects are scaled at 0.5, soldier sprites slightly smaller, they were divided by 2.15 (the arrived at magic number for true distances), whatever that percentage is, probably around 0.48. These different scales work OK for me since I've always observed the soldiers being slightly too large for the objects in the stock game.

    Reb - Opened the Devil's Den map and scaled a fence at ( 0.5 ) - are you sure that you are using those values?

    That is extremely small - and has to be a 95% reduction of the original values.

    Or, does the ( 0.5 ) mean that you are reducing them by 50% ? Which would seem more Logical!

    So, are you using something like 2.5 2.5 2.5 for the values of the fences?
    ............................................................................
    ............................................................................

    Just in case you wanted to know, there are...

    791 Worm-Fences
    937 Rail Fences
    344 Plank Fences ( White )
    213 Picket Fences ( White )

    Didn't count the structures.....

    131072,0 Pixels down one side of the Map!

    Happy Hunting!

    davinci

    The only true logic is that, there is no true logic!
    Last edit: 2 years 2 months ago by Davinci.
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    2 years 2 months ago #53 by RebBugler

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  • Or, does the ( 0.5 ) mean that you are reducing them by 50% ? Which would seem more Logical!

    So, are you using something like 2.5 2.5 2.5 for the values of the fences?
    ............................................................................
    ............................................................................

    Just in case you wanted to know, there are...

    791 Worm-Fences
    937 Rail Fences
    344 Plank Fences ( White )
    213 Picket Fences ( White )


    Yes, 50% reduction, obviously I wasn't clear as to the scaling, but you figured out my jargon.

    And yes, the numbers are daunting, but right now I'm committed to seeing this through. Also, I refuse to throw away a week of work on this. And above all, I want the fences to look as realistic as possible, not appearing flattened and stretched. Still, if this mod pans out, more maps will be added, I won't go through this mundane fence scaling madness again. I'll definitely go the Hex Editor route, or something similar to batch process fencing scaling.

    Thanks for your warning, we'll just have to see if burn out gets me before I complete this first map - Devil's Den, :evil: how appropriate for the task ahead. :woohoo:

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    2 years 2 months ago #54 by Davinci

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  • Reb - If you want this file , here it is!

    All of the fences have been scaled to 2.5 2.5 2.5 with the exception of some of the white "Pickett Fences".

    Now, all that you have to do is Click on One, Duplicate it, and fill in the spaces.

    Way faster then doing them Manually.



    File Attachment:

    File Name: terrain.rar
    File Size:102 KB


    davinci

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    2 years 2 months ago #55 by Davinci

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  • BTW - If you choose to use that "terrain.lvl" file posted above, it will "Over-Write" your terrain.lvl file so any changes that you have made will be lost.

    There is No way possible to combine them into one, that I am aware of!

    If you choose to use it, Copy it into your DD_RT Map folder in the NSD\Tools folder.

    davinci

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    2 years 2 months ago - 2 years 2 months ago #56 by RebBugler

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  • BTW - If you choose to use that "terrain.lvl" file posted above, it will "Over-Write" your terrain.lvl file so any changes that you have made will be lost.

    There is No way possible to combine them into one, that I am aware of!

    If you choose to use it, Copy it into your DD_RT Map folder in the NSD\Tools folder.

    davinci


    Alright Davinci, that works fine for the worm fences in saving a LOT of time. Not so much though with the slat fencing as the space between segments is too small to accept duplicates. The picket fencing is plagued with overlapping segments so this isn't a time saver.

    This will be a good scaling fix when beginning a new map. Unfortunately I've already done hundreds of the slat fencing segments, the toughest fencing to aline, so I can't use this fix for this (in progress) map.

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