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TC split battalion

2 years 4 months ago #1 by 52ndOx

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  • TC split battalion was created by 52ndOx
    Hi again

    Newbie question about deploying skirmishers. :unsure:

    I know how to TC a skirmish unit after it is split, but it seems that the parent goes TC off in the process (the yellow flag icon goes out)

    Is this normal, or is it just a visual bug and the battalion is in fact still TC'ed, or am I missing something?

    (For information its Steam version (thus should be v1.03) with Grog v7.1)
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    2 years 4 months ago #2 by DarkRob

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  • Replied by DarkRob on topic Re: TC split battalion

    Hi again

    Newbie question about deploying skirmishers. :unsure:

    I know how to TC a skirmish unit after it is split, but it seems that the parent goes TC off in the process (the yellow flag icon goes out)

    Is this normal, or is it just a visual bug and the battalion is in fact still TC'ed, or am I missing something?

    (For information its Steam version (thus should be v1.03) with Grog v7.1)



    I believe this was done as a sort of fix to deal with the skirmisher bug I discovered years ago with the grog toolbar. Because the grog toolbar doesn't have separate split and unsplit buttons the toolbar is supposed to configure itself to whatever option is relevant.

    However with skirmisher units there was a bug. If you split off skirmisher units and moved them while they were TC'd before the AI had a chance to move them itself, the toolbar would not flip and you would not be able to recall that skirmisher unit at a later time.

    What I figured out is that letting the AI move the skirmisher unit first is what triggered the toolbar to flip properly. After that you could TC them normally.

    I think Reb later made it so that parent units and the skirmisher units you split off from them would come off TC to lessen the chances of players getting their skirmisher toolbars frozen on split and then not being able to recall them.
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    2 years 4 months ago - 2 years 4 months ago #3 by 52ndOx

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  • Replied by 52ndOx on topic Re: TC split battalion
    Thanks, I understand.

    Not related, but after deleting my high scores to eliminate the Militia ones, I am replaying scenarios on Normal. As mentioned there is ample replay value. :)
    This time at Papelotte the whole Allied left wing including cavalry came down to try to retake the farmhouse. :blink:

    Good job the scenario is only 30 mins.

    Last edit: 2 years 4 months ago by 52ndOx. Reason: change ss link
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    2 years 4 months ago - 2 years 4 months ago #4 by RALB

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  • Replied by RALB on topic Re: TC split battalion
    Ignore them, hold the Farmhouses, holding primary objectives is how you get major victories in this game, getting carried away with Grand Tactical plans and trying to rewrite history may be fun but it doesn't get you the Major Victory points. Watch DarkRobs videos here excellent videos on the games mechanics, Grog Toolbar, and walkthoughs. Also download the Grog Toolbar
    www.youtube.com/user/DarkRob316/playlists
    Latest Grog Toolbar here under post#22 www.norbsoftdev.net/forum/waterloo-modifications/78726-mod-les-cent-jours-download-link#78750
    Last edit: 2 years 4 months ago by RALB.
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    2 years 4 months ago - 2 years 4 months ago #5 by RebBugler

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  • Replied by RebBugler on topic Re: TC split battalion

    I think Reb later made it so that parent units and the skirmisher units you split off from them would come off TC to lessen the chances of players getting their skirmisher toolbars frozen on split and then not being able to recall them.


    Yeah, the split off skirmishers must assume their unique formation for the separate split commands to display properly. I found that a TC'd battalion delayed and prevented this modded feature from functioning, so TC off had to be scripted in. Don't like to mess with the player's unit status, but this was the only way I could find to make this feature work.

    The inclusion of both the split and unsplit commands being on all units I found unacceptable, just had to find a fix. And this hack works with a little player intervention. :whistle:

    Bugles & Flags Gettysburg - Toolbar, Flags, Scenarios, and More...
    Last edit: 2 years 4 months ago by RebBugler.
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    2 years 4 months ago #6 by DarkRob

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  • Replied by DarkRob on topic Re: TC split battalion

    I think Reb later made it so that parent units and the skirmisher units you split off from them would come off TC to lessen the chances of players getting their skirmisher toolbars frozen on split and then not being able to recall them.


    Yeah, the split off skirmishers must assume their unique formation for the separate split commands to display properly. I found that a TC'd battalion delayed and prevented this modded feature from functioning, so TC off had to be scripted in. Don't like to mess with the player's unit status, but this was the only way I could find to make this feature work.

    The inclusion of both the split and unsplit commands being on all units I found unacceptable, just had to find a fix. And this hack works with a little player intervention. :whistle:


    It solved way more problems than it creates. Inexperienced players may not immediately realize their units have come off TC, but at least this helps them to not accidentally lock up their toolbars split/unsplit function without realizing it.

    Experienced players have likely seen my early videos where I covered this in detail and already know how to avoid it.
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    2 years 4 months ago #7 by 52ndOx

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  • Replied by 52ndOx on topic Re: TC split battalion

    Ignore them, hold the Farmhouses, holding primary objectives is how you get major victories in this game, getting carried away with Grand Tactical plans and trying to rewrite history may be fun but it doesn't get you the Major Victory points. Watch DarkRobs videos here excellent videos on the games mechanics, Grog Toolbar, and walkthoughs. Also download the Grog Toolbar
    www.youtube.com/user/DarkRob316/playlists
    Latest Grog Toolbar here under post#22 www.norbsoftdev.net/forum/waterloo-modifications/78726-mod-les-cent-jours-download-link#78750


    Hello.
    Yes. It was a Major Victory with 1293 points.
    But if the battle continued I would have been hard pressed to hold against 2 divisions with my tired brigade. British cavalry had already run off Pegot's Brigade. Nothing like this happened on my last play-through, that's the point.

    My post says I am using Grog v7.1. I think thats the latest?

    And Rob's videos are instructive (thanks to him for all his efforts), but they don't always match my experience. Maybe the game runs different with my installation to when he made those.
    They are useful but you have to know the limitations and find your own way, even as a newbie. :)

    But sorry, this is all off topic. The question about the split mechanic and how it affects the TC status is answered. Thanks again.
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    2 years 4 months ago - 2 years 4 months ago #8 by DarkRob

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  • Replied by DarkRob on topic Re: TC split battalion

    Hello.
    Yes. It was a Major Victory with 1293 points.
    But if the battle continued I would have been hard pressed to hold against 2 divisions with my tired brigade. British cavalry had already run off Pegot's Brigade. Nothing like this happened on my last play-through, that's the point.


    The Allied counterattack is scripted to happen if you capture the farmhouses to quickly. There are other scenarios that have such surprises in store as well. Capturing the farmhouses early and triggering the counterattack is a sign you're getting better, and accomplishing your tasks faster.

    Pegot's brigade is kind of a wildcard. Ive seen them be total chickens and Ive seen them be superheros. Its fun to watch, but ultimately plays no part in the outcome of the scenario. The scenario just isn't long enough for the Allies to drive you back out of the forts, especially if you TC all your units. Then they wont retreat until they rout.

    And Rob's videos are instructive (thanks to him for all his efforts), but they don't always match my experience. Maybe the game runs different with my installation to when he made those.
    They are useful but you have to know the limitations and find your own way, even as a newbie. :)


    The thing about a game like this is every playthrough is different, even for me. Regardless if I use the same exact strategies and tactics I used in a previous playthrough, something is always different. Small changes lead to more small changes and the next thing you know you have a totally different playthrough.

    So my series isn't really a step by step walkthrough of what to do with each unit and how to get the same result over and over again. It just doesn't happen like that in this game. Rather they are a guide to using the most surefire strategies and tactics for beating every scenario in the game. Regardless of the individual differences that happen with every playthrough, the overall strategies I demonstrate will lead you to victory every time if you execute them correctly.

    For instance in a scenario like, say, "The Emperors Plan" you wouldn't need to follow every single thing I do move for move and step for step. Its enough for you to know to just use skirmishers, surround the allied forces in the woods and shoot them all to death or until they run off and then move your brigade onto the objective and sit there and rack up the points, and never go near Hougomont. However you go about doing that is fine, and so long as you do it, you'll win every time.

    There have been some patches since I did my video series, and some mechanics have changed. But only slightly. The core game is still the same. What worked back then still works now.

    But I also agree with you that the best way to learn and discover Scourge of War is on your own. I sometimes wish I could go back and unlearn everything I know so I could discover it all again for the first time.
    At this point I know just about everything there is to know about how to play this game. So there is no more mystery for me, and sometimes I miss that. So in some ways I envy the journey you are about to begin.

    My video series is really meant to help new players that cant come to grips with the mechanics of the game, or are having trouble cresting the learning curve. I would rather be able to explain the game to a new player that is frustrated by the game and thinking about dropping it and be able to help them instead of having them give up on the game.

    But if you're getting it, and improving, and most importantly, having fun doing it, then you don't need me. Id just be taking the magic and mystery and the chance to discover the game in your own way away from you.
    Last edit: 2 years 4 months ago by DarkRob.
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    2 years 4 months ago #9 by 52ndOx

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  • Replied by 52ndOx on topic Re: TC split battalion
    Hey Rob

    Please don't get me wrong.
    I have seen some of your videos and have got a lot out of them. You deserve massive praise for the effort you put in to creating them.

    I enjoy watching them both because I can learn some of the games mechanics, and because I appreciate your obvious passion and dedication about the game. It is crystal clear that you love it. :)

    The limitations of the videos for me are about the way that you choose to play.
    Players get to use the game however they want of course, and should get maximum enjoyment.

    That which I can't get from your videos is insight about how to do better playing the way I want to.
    A "Major Victory" at all costs is a hollow one for me. Not because the game is just an unflexible simulation of one particular battle that needs to be slavishly followed, even though the developers level of research and historical accuracy is amazing, but because I want to play in a way that is consistent with my knowledge of combat in the period.

    Although I am new to SOW (having only recently discovered the series), I have been wargaming Napoleonics for more than 40 years. Through tabletop models, to hex and cardboard, to tentative computer simulations, to writing my own programs to help keep track of my battles, to computer implementations of the hex genre, to Total War style video action. Etc.

    In SOW I want to be able to fulfill my role as a character.
    I am helped by the concept that your character is important. If he dies you lose.
    So I also want him to do his best to try to follow orders, and get a Major Victory whilst actually completing the mission I accepted. Not just some easy exploit.

    As an example.
    If as Jerome I come to my brother and say. "I didn't bother to attack the chateaux because it was easier to just sit in the orchard", I doubt he will be impressed. The action has a purpose, to draw in Wellingtons reserves, weaken his left, and make it easier for D'Erlon to make a success of his mission.

    But if Jerome knows that D'Erlon won't either try to follow orders, and will just camp out with his entire corps at La Haye Sainte, then I guess he might well feel that his sacrifice at Hougoumont is unjustified. ;)

    But that is my way, and I know and respect to the utmost that you have yours.

    So once again a massive thank you to you for your input. It is both appreciated and inspiring. :)
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    2 years 4 months ago #10 by DarkRob

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  • Replied by DarkRob on topic Re: TC split battalion

    Hey Rob

    Please don't get me wrong.
    I have seen some of your videos and have got a lot out of them. You deserve massive praise for the effort you put in to creating them.

    I enjoy watching them both because I can learn some of the games mechanics, and because I appreciate your obvious passion and dedication about the game. It is crystal clear that you love it. :)

    The limitations of the videos for me are about the way that you choose to play.
    Players get to use the game however they want of course, and should get maximum enjoyment.

    That which I can't get from your videos is insight about how to do better playing the way I want to.
    A "Major Victory" at all costs is a hollow one for me. Not because the game is just an unflexible simulation of one particular battle that needs to be slavishly followed, even though the developers level of research and historical accuracy is amazing, but because I want to play in a way that is consistent with my knowledge of combat in the period.

    Although I am new to SOW (having only recently discovered the series), I have been wargaming Napoleonics for more than 40 years. Through tabletop models, to hex and cardboard, to tentative computer simulations, to writing my own programs to help keep track of my battles, to computer implementations of the hex genre, to Total War style video action. Etc.

    In SOW I want to be able to fulfill my role as a character.
    I am helped by the concept that your character is important. If he dies you lose.
    So I also want him to do his best to try to follow orders, and get a Major Victory whilst actually completing the mission I accepted. Not just some easy exploit.

    As an example.
    If as Jerome I come to my brother and say. "I didn't bother to attack the chateaux because it was easier to just sit in the orchard", I doubt he will be impressed. The action has a purpose, to draw in Wellingtons reserves, weaken his left, and make it easier for D'Erlon to make a success of his mission.

    But if Jerome knows that D'Erlon won't either try to follow orders, and will just camp out with his entire corps at La Haye Sainte, then I guess he might well feel that his sacrifice at Hougoumont is unjustified. ;)

    But that is my way, and I know and respect to the utmost that you have yours.

    So once again a massive thank you to you for your input. It is both appreciated and inspiring. :)


    Those are all super valid points. My way to play is not the only way to play, and Scourge of War is great at adapting itself to anyones style of play, whether you want to control every unit on the field yourself, or just issue orders to your subordinates and then sit back and watch the drama unfold.

    I show what can be done, what the game is capable of when you push it to it's absolute limit, not what must be done, or how you must play.

    The most important thing is that you have fun playing the game the way you want to play it. There is no wrong or right way to play. As long as you enjoy playing the game, that's all that really matters, and it's all I really want for any player is to have fun.

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