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Re: Building a map, start of a project, help will be needed

2 years 4 months ago - 2 years 4 months ago #1 by 52ndOx

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  • Questions about Lstudio.
    Q1) Lstudio runs ok, and editing seems relatively intuative, and it compiles the required .lsl
    But it can only import .lsl files? So how to start the process? Is it only possible to modify an existing map?
    Q2) Compile is a CTD. Known issue?
    Q3) How to see which splat texture is associated with which colour in the RGB files?

    A1) Map making is a bit convuluted and the best way to learn is to edit something that works
    A2) The compiler needs a sub folder "CompiledLevels"
    A3) Can see this in texture generator menu. The 3 files before rgb1 are the textures for r, g and b on that sheet

    Questions about other tools.
    Q1) Libedit looks useful but is password protected? How to bypass?

    A1) Running LibEdit as Admin seems to fix this, not sure why.

    General questions.
    Q1) Some maps are described as sandbox only. What might make them incompatible with user scenarios?
    Q2) how come some map.bmps seem to have grayscale values with no defined terrain?

    A1) Davinci says that maps can be used in any module, and I trust his knowledge
    A2) No idea. It should produce errors
    Last edit: 2 years 4 months ago by 52ndOx.
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    2 years 4 months ago - 2 years 4 months ago #2 by 52ndOx

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  • EDIT: this thread is reorganised so questions and answers are in the first post. Thanks for any contributions.

    So

    I am taking the first step in my journey to build a map for SOWWL.

    I have the SDK2 and so NSD released tools, and there is quite a lot of information in the SDK documentation.
    I can also work with graphics files (with alpha) plus both .csv and .xml if required.

    I understand already the map folder structure with 5 files, and some of their functions.

    map.bmp - a power2 square grayscale bitmap where the values define terrain types according to entries in map.csv
    map.csv - comprising 4 tables where Brush associates terrain types and parameters from the bmps grayscale value
    map.ini - map information and parameters
    map.lsl - an encoded binary compiled by the provided version of lstudio
    map_MM.dds - a dds image used as the minimap


    So my first question (of many)

    Lstudio runs ok, and editing seems relatively intuative, and it compiles the required .lsl
    But it can only import .lsl files? So how to start the process? Is it only possible to modify an existing map?

    Can anyone push me on my first step? Thanks!
    Last edit: 2 years 4 months ago by 52ndOx.
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    2 years 4 months ago #3 by 52ndOx

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  • Libedit seems able to split a compiled lsl, which would be useful, but is password protected.
    How to get access?

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    2 years 4 months ago - 2 years 4 months ago #4 by Davinci

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  • I was Really Hoping that someone would assist you with this, but the Community is sort of scattered at the moment, so here goes!

    First, Install the PR6 Program onto your Computer...Probably done, Good!

    Place the LibEdit - Directly into that PR6 \ Directory for easy access, also place it in the Taskbar for easy access. That last part is Optional but that's how I do it.

    From the PR6 Directory, Create a New Folder and name it "Whatever" you want your Map name to be. For Clarity in this example, it is called "Map 1"

    Drag an Existing Map.lsl file from the game into the PR6 directory, one that you would like to edit first to learn with.

    Open the LibEdit Window - and drag that ( ExistingMap.lsl ) into the LibEdit Window. All of the files will now show up once they are in that window.

    Click the first file - it will turn blue - use the scroll bar and Shift-Click the last file - All of them should be Blue in Color.

    Click the "Action" button from the LibEdit Window - Select Extract - and Copy all of the files into the New folder that you created a while back called "Map 1"

    Place the File below - Once it is extracted - into the Map 1 folder - this is the file that will Open the Map 1 up to be viewed in the Power-Render-Program.

    Once all of this is done, Open the LSudio.exe Program - and Navigate to the Map 1 folder - and select the "Splat2.lpj" file - the Map should now to Open and ready to Mod.

    There is a lot more but this should get you a step closer!

    File Attachment:

    File Name: splat2_2019-07-27.rar
    File Size:0 KB


    davinci

    The only true logic is that, there is no true logic!
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    Last edit: 2 years 4 months ago by Davinci.
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    2 years 4 months ago #5 by 52ndOx

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  • Hi Davinci

    Great thanks! Yes I know there are few around, but I am new and only just getting going. I really appreciate the help. :)

    I've got a grasp of how things work, but its not plain sailing by any means. :unsure:

    Not 100% sure I have Power Render 6 installed. There is a dll in the SDK but I don't see an exe or anything.
    Do I need to fetch it from somewhere else and install? I certainly don't have a PR6 directory.

    If I drag an lsl into LibEdit it asks for a password so it seems I can't continue?

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    2 years 4 months ago #6 by Davinci

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  • Hmm - Now that I am thinking about it, it is probably better if "You" do not change the Name of the first Map that you are trying to learn with, this will cause a lot more work on your part to get it into the game.

    Basically, you will also have to change the names of all of the other files also, bmp,csv,ini,dds,etc....

    SO, once you have to Map that you would like to Edit, since it is easier to learn from an existing map, make a backup Copy of all of those Map files, and place them into a separate folder, now there is no need to rename anything.

    Confusing Yes, but welcome to the Club!

    Start off by adding and removing house's and fences, Save the Map, load it up into the game to see if it works.

    Adding and changing the roads is a little bit more complicated , but once you are able to edit and existing map, you can do just about anything with the other maps.

    davinci

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    2 years 4 months ago #7 by Davinci

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  • Not 100% sure I have Power Render 6 installed. There is a dll in the SDK but I don't see an exe or anything.
    Do I need to fetch it from somewhere else and install? I certainly don't have a PR6 directory.

    If I drag an lsl into LibEdit it asks for a password so it seems I can't continue?


    It should look something like this.


    Once, Installed - There is No Password - the LibEdit Window - works with a Drag and Drop System.

    Basically, You just drag a ( lsl ) into it, and the contents will display.

    davinci

    The only true logic is that, there is no true logic!
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    2 years 4 months ago - 2 years 4 months ago #8 by 52ndOx

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  • I have this structure, so it seems your PR6 folder is my NSDTools one. I think I have all the software.

    But whatever lsl I try to drag into LibEdit it asks for a library password.

    Last edit: 2 years 4 months ago by 52ndOx.

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    2 years 4 months ago #9 by Davinci

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  • But whatever lsl I try to drag into LibEdit it asks for a library password.

    Copy the ( lsl ) into the PR6 Directory - first, does the same thing happen?

    Copy the ( lsl ) and the Libedit Window - onto the Desktop - does the same thing happen?

    Both - are a complete guess, I haven't heard of this type of problem before.

    davinci

    The only true logic is that, there is no true logic!
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    2 years 4 months ago #10 by 52ndOx

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  • I don't see why but running LibEdit as Admin removed the password dialogue. Weird.
    It doesn't matter where the files are located, and Cntl C/V works as well as drag/drop.
    (File/Open Existing Library works too.)

    I have now used the tool to load a default map into Lstudio for editing.
    The files save one at a time which is a bit duh!, but maybe I can write a batch.

    It opened using your provided lpj (I know nothing about lpj file type)

    The mouse commands for world navigation don't seem to work in Lstudio, but luckily there are keyboard shortcuts.

    I will try to make some changes and see if I can get them in game.

    Great help thanks! <3
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    2 years 4 months ago - 2 years 4 months ago #11 by r59

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  • The files save one at a time which is a bit duh!, but maybe I can write a batch.


    Hell, you made me remember I wrote a replacing C++ command-line tool to exactly avoid that hassle at the times of TC2M! :laugh:
    Umh, it was about 13 years ago, I think... :huh:
    But Davinci's posts on map modding are informative just the same as then. Keep them coming! ;)
    Last edit: 2 years 4 months ago by r59.
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    2 years 4 months ago #12 by Davinci

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  • I don't see why but running LibEdit as Admin removed the password dialogue. Weird.
    It doesn't matter where the files are located, and Cntl C/V works as well as drag/drop.
    (File/Open Existing Library works too.)

    Yes, I tried to run the Newer PR6 - when the Tools became available and ran into a Problem with the LibEdit Window, so I never went back to that particular Version - So, I run the older Version with it's own Directory.

    I have now used the tool to load a default map into Lstudio for editing.
    The files save one at a time which is a bit duh!, but maybe I can write a batch.

    They Load that way once when placing them into a New folder. But once they are located in that file, it won't do that anymore. Saving and Editing the files are almost instant.

    It opened using your provided lpj (I know nothing about lpj file type)

    That file ( lpj ) is strictly an Power Render Program, file used to Open up the Maps.

    The mouse commands for world navigation don't seem to work in Lstudio, but luckily there are keyboard shortcuts.

    Yes, but once you start using the Keyboard Keys, it will all work out well, the Mouse is used to Place objects down and remove them, if I am remembering that correctly.

    It's been a while since I have used them. Getting Old!

    I will try to make some changes and see if I can get them in game.

    Great, One of the functions in the Menu will slow down the Camera to place down the Objects, I will have to Load the Program to remember which keys does that.

    Good Luck!

    davinci

    The only true logic is that, there is no true logic!
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    2 years 4 months ago - 2 years 4 months ago #13 by 52ndOx

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  • Damn.

    Now I can load a map into Lstudio, make some simple changes and save.
    But trying to compile is a CTD.

    I fixed it!

    From the PR6 Directory, Create a New Folder and name it "Whatever" you want your Map name to be. For Clarity in this example, it is called "Map 1"

    I think it has to be in Levels to work.

    And I needed to create "CompiledLevels" too.
    Last edit: 2 years 4 months ago by 52ndOx.
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    2 years 4 months ago #14 by Davinci

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  • Damn.

    Now I can load a map into Lstudio, make some simple changes and save.
    But trying to compile is a CTD.

    I fixed it!

    From the PR6 Directory, Create a New Folder and name it "Whatever" you want your Map name to be. For Clarity in this example, it is called "Map 1"

    I think it has to be in Levels to work.

    And I needed to create "CompiledLevels" too.


    OK, When the Map-Tools were first available, the Compile didn't work, so I have never used it.

    Once you have made any changes in the PR6 Program - Save the files in PR6 and Exit.

    Once, you are back in the PR6 \ Directory - Open LibEdit and drag the Mapname.lsl file into LibEdit.

    All of the files will display - Click "Action" \ Add Update Files \ Navigate back into the Folder that you created and Select all of the files. Click "Open".

    All of the files will Compile into the ( lsl ) file. Then place the New Edited ( lsl ) file into the Games \ Mods \ Map - folder.

    That is basically the only way that I have ever done it, never used Compile!

    davinci

    The only true logic is that, there is no true logic!
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    2 years 4 months ago #15 by 52ndOx

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  • Well.
    Made a lot of progress thanks to Davinci, but hurdles remain (of course)
    • Made a folder in NSDTools/levels "TM1"
    • Used WLGen1.lsl to populate that folder with extracted files using LibEdit
    • Added TM1.lpj to the folder, think its a simple text file with the absolute path to the TM1 folder, in my case:
      "D:\STEAM\STEAMAPPS\COMMON\SCOURGE OF WAR WATERLOO\SDK\NSDTOOLS\LEVELS\TM1"
    • Opened Lstudio with TM1.lpj and got the N-S map as required.
    • Added a single object in the editor
    • Compiled "TM1.lsl" in NSDTools/CompiledLevels
    • Copied and renamed WLGen1.bmp/csv/dds/ini to Base/Maps as TM1.bmp/csv/dds/ini, and moved TM1.lsl there too
    • Checked that TM1.ini has the correct four filenames in [Files] block
    • Used ScenarioEditor to make a simple scenario using "TM1" as map in SOWWL/Scenarios
    • Started SOWWL and tried to load the scenario with this result:



    Probably only missing something simple?

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    2 years 4 months ago - 2 years 4 months ago #16 by 52ndOx

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  • Damn

    Didn't see Davinci's last post :P

    OK, my files are likely in the wrong place, but I don't have //Mods/Maps :unsure:

    I will try to create a folder there and move my files.
    Also try the other compilation method.

    Keep you posted.

    EDIT:
    This church from Ligny has been added to the N-S map by me, and is in a sandbox scenario. There is hope!
    Last edit: 2 years 4 months ago by 52ndOx.
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    2 years 4 months ago - 2 years 4 months ago #17 by Davinci

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  • OK, Sorry for the Confusion, there is Not a Mods\Maps - that was a Simple way of saying that once you Edit the Map in question - you have to Copy it into the Game which is usually in Your Mods\MapName - Folder.

    Basically , the "folder" that has all of the other files that are associated with this particular Map.

    OK, Great - You are Adding Objects - Once you feel that you are making progress, We can go over the path towards adding or removing roads and woods, and etc...

    The Last Map that I was working on was "MarkT" Manassas Map - So, once I edit it (i.e..the MapName.lsl ) from the "PR6 \ Directory" , I will move it into the Games \ Mods \ Map - Folder to view the results.



    But, I think that you have already figured most of this out, which is Good!

    davinci

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    2 years 4 months ago - 2 years 4 months ago #18 by 52ndOx

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  • But, I think that you have already figured most of this out, which is Good!

    Without your stellar help I would still be at step one!

    I think I understand the principles for the terrain. It's gray-scale values from the BMP which are looked up in map.csv?

    And altitudes are similarly gray-scale values from height.tga? And the mesh can also be dragged in Lstudio.

    But I'm sure there will be more confusion and chaos along the way. But progress is being made - thanks!
    Last edit: 2 years 4 months ago by 52ndOx.
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    2 years 4 months ago #19 by 52ndOx

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  • Now I have a new question ;)
    I read in another post that some map mods are for sandbox only.
    What is it that restricts them in that way?
    Does it mean that if I build a map I might not be able to use it in a user scenario?

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    2 years 4 months ago #20 by Davinci

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  • This is Not going to be 100% Correct, but sort of how I view this particular Topic!

    You are basically running Two Different Engines - That sort of have Nothing to do with each other, but are Programmed to work together.

    The "Power Render Engine" - is Not Designed by "Norb", only Programmed by "Norb" to work with "his" Engine.

    Norb's Engine is the - other files that are used to interact with the Power Render Engine, such as the bmp, csv, dds, and the ini files.

    So, the "Height" that is displayed is controlled by the PR6, not by Norb's Engine.

    The RGB files, which there are usually four of them, are also controlled by the PR6 Program. One without the other and the whole system will just not work, correctly.

    It's sort of hard to explain, correctly, but "Norb's" game has no idea where to "March" the men on the roads that are displayed on the RGB files, they can't see any of the roads, river's, streams, etc...

    This is where the coordinates-system is used to keep everything working together.

    The "MapName.bmp" file - controls the coordinates where everything that is display on the RGB files can be read into the game. This file can Only use Greyscale Colors 0-255.

    The "MapName.csv" file - then reads the "MapName.bmp" file - and displays the terrain that is shown in the game based off of the "Greyscale" color's used by the bmp file . If this file reads a Greyscale Color that is not used in the (bmp) it will create an error each time that color is not there.

    The "MapName.dds" file - is just a miniature picture of the Map that is used to view the whole map while in the game.

    The "MapName.ini" file - tells the game which files are associated with this particular map so that it doesn't try to load the wrong files. So, basically you can have hundreds of Map files that won't conflict with each other.

    The "Packages" are the Objects that are displayed in Both the PR6 Program and the Game, that is probably the Only thing that that Engines have in common.

    To "View" the contents of the Packages - Just Drag and Drop into the "LibEdit" Window, they can then be copied into a folder to edit, once the Edit is complete, just drag the New files back into the LibEdit Window.

    davinci

    The only true logic is that, there is no true logic!
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    2 years 4 months ago #21 by Davinci

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  • Now I have a new question ;)
    I read in another post that some map mods are for sandbox only.
    What is it that restricts them in that way?
    Does it mean that if I build a map I might not be able to use it in a user scenario?


    If that is True, I have absolutely no idea why a Map would work in a Scenario and Not in Sandbox, or vise-versa .

    I cannot think of any reason why someone would have typed that, but I would have to read their whole post to understand what they were referring to.

    davinci

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    2 years 4 months ago #22 by 52ndOx

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  • Wow, massive amount of information again :)

    The sandbox thing I have seen several places.
    Example Saddle tanks post #12 in this thread.
    Here

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    2 years 4 months ago - 2 years 4 months ago #23 by Davinci

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  • Wow, massive amount of information again :)

    The sandbox thing I have seen several places.
    Example Saddle tanks post #12 in this thread.
    Here

    Hmm, I don't have the Waterloo Game - So if that information is directly related to that game, I would not be the best person to answer this question.

    "Reb" - is always close by, maybe "He" can answer this one!

    I really don't think that there is a difference between Multi-Player, Sandbox, or a Scenario as far as designing a Map goes.

    davinci

    The only true logic is that, there is no true logic!
    Last edit: 2 years 4 months ago by Davinci.
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    2 years 4 months ago - 2 years 4 months ago #24 by 52ndOx

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  • Sounds good, thanks.
    Just for the record, I only have SOWWL,and that is why I ask my questions in this forum, and not in GB.

    Why are there 4 RGBs? Maybe for different networks river/road/etc, or something else?
    Last edit: 2 years 4 months ago by 52ndOx.

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    2 years 4 months ago #25 by Davinci

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  • Sounds good, thanks.
    Just for the record, I only have SOWWL,and that is why I ask my questions in this forum, and not in GB.

    Why are there 4 RGBs? Maybe for different networks river/road/etc, or something else?

    Yes, Correct!

    The Four RGB files are sort of divided with each one displaying three different types of terrain.

    So, by using four different RGB files, you can display twelve different terrain types on the Map.

    But, the Game will run with one, two, three, or four RGB files, it's just that most Map designers will always use four to make the Map look better.

    davinci

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    2 years 4 months ago #26 by 52ndOx

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  • So on any RGB pure red is one type of terrain, pure green another, and pure blue the third?
    Presumably those colours are then referenced in a CSV. But which one?

    So many questions lol, you are amazingly helpful.

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    2 years 4 months ago - 2 years 4 months ago #27 by Davinci

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  • So on any RGB pure red is one type of terrain, pure green another, and pure blue the third?
    Presumably those colours are then referenced in a CSV. But which one?

    So many questions lol, you are amazingly helpful.

    None of the Colors are really represented in the MapName.csv file - it goes back to the Two-Separate-Engines.

    But, that is only partially True, once again, sort of hard to put into words.....

    The PR6 - has to have a way of interpreting which terrain it is supposed to draw and where it is suppose to draw it, here is where the different color's come into play. Don't think about the Game at this time, Only the PR6 Program. The Game has Nothing to do with this Process.

    So, if I want a Road-System, I will tell the PR6 Program - Road is this Color "Red" - So wherever I place the Color "Red" and assign it to a Graphic of "Dirt" - place my road here.

    If, I want a different color for the outside of the road, a different texture, I will use a different color, lets say "Green".

    The PR6 - will draw the road ( Red ), and everywhere outside of that road if it see's the Color "Green" it will place down a different texture that is assigned to green.

    Now, the RGB files are numbered 1 - 4, so if the Color Red does something on RGB1, the Color red will do something completely different on RGB2. They are four separate files.

    The PR6 Program - will allow you to select which texture is assigned to which RGB file, and to which Color that is on the RGB file. This is why you can have twelve different textures to represent your Map.

    The Game doesn't really have anything to do with any of this, but the game is Programmed to read the MapName.bmp file - which is everything that is located on the four RGB files and work off a sort of coordinate system.

    Basically, if you were to take all of the Colors off of the four RGB files and lay them down on a single sheet, it should have the exact coordinates of the Mapname.bmp file.

    Another way of looking at this is something like this....

    You have four pieces of glass that are 12" by 12".

    You can only place three colors on each one of them, but you don't want the colors to overlap each other and sort of blur out.

    So, on the first piece you put down a color that will represent the main ground terrain, and the main road terrain, and the outside of the main road.

    The second piece of glass, might contain the area of the woods. So, if you place the second sheet of glass over the first sheet, you would make sure that the colors didn't overlap.

    The same process goes for the other two pieces of glass, basically once you finish, you can stack them on top of each other and the RGB colors shouldn't overlap, and should represent the design of your Map.

    The MapName.bmp - Can't read the RGB Colors - It is designed to only read Greyscale Colors.

    So, the Greyscale Colors that you see on the MapName.bmp file is really all four of the RGB files if they were transparent and stacked on top of each other.

    Now, since the Game is not designed to read the RGB Colors - it will use "Greyscale Colors" to represent the exact coordinates of the RGB files. It doesn't do this on it's own, you have to manually design the MapName.bmp file which is another way of designing all four of the RGB files except in Greyscale Colors only.

    The MapName.csv file will read these Greyscale colors from the MapName.bmp file and then assign the up to Five different terrain objects that you have selected onto the Map that you view in the game.

    Another thing is that as you already know, there are more than One Color of Red,Green, and Blue that you can use in the RGB files. The PR6 will still read them as Red, Green or Blue, but display them in a sort of different way. It can be use to sort of "Fade" the terrain to show as solid, or a bit faded.

    Simple and Clear as Muddy Water!

    davinci

    The only true logic is that, there is no true logic!
    Last edit: 2 years 4 months ago by Davinci.
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    2 years 4 months ago - 2 years 4 months ago #28 by 52ndOx

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  • Phew ;)

    My mission now, understand the inter-relationships between SOWWL engine and the 5 map files, plus the Power Render and the RGB/texture files that end up in the lsl that the SOWWL engine uses. :whistle:

    So I looked more closely at the map I began to edit, the N-S map (WLGen1).
    Unsurprisingly there are questions. :P

    So:

    All this is about an arbitrary field at the junction of two roads in a part of the map.

    in the game it looks like:


    In the bmp (which is 2048*2048 in 8b grayscale) it looks like:


    There is a resemblance, but already problems.
    • There are only 2 values, 210 and 215, should be field and plowed field according to the csv, but 3 terrain types - which must be then coming from the lsl.
    • There are values that are not listed in the csv, eg the roads are 39,41,43,45 and the only one listed is supposed to be water, as shown here:


    How can the bmp contain values not defined in the csv?

    So we come to the 4 RGBs, which get compiled into the lsl.
    There are problems ;)
    • They are jpgs?? A great way to lose data in compression and decompression.
    • They are not the same size?? Some are 1024*1024 and others 2048*2048. Which means coordinates cannot match!
    • They are saved as 24b?? This allows for millions of colours when it seems only 12 textures are allowed
    So I make them all 2048*2048.

    One looks like this:

    Now we might be able to see why the game shows 3 different fields, but what about the RGB values here?
    We have 0,255,1 (so not quite pure green) 254,0,0 (so not quite pure red) and 0,0,244 (so not quite pure blue).
    I don't understand the effect of these very subtle deviations from standard in the channels.

    Then there is this one:

    This seems to add some kind of variation, but the blue has many different values, so what texture or textures does it reference?

    Similarly here:

    This contains many variation of red, blue and green. Are they just transparency levels for again different texture overlays?

    And the last file here:

    Has the road network, but again includes something else.
    And the black is not black but very dark grey (1,1,1)

    TLDR;
    In summary, for a map which is provided in game and not a 3rd party addon.
    • How can there be grayscale values in the bmp which don't seem to have a terrain type in the csv?
    • Why are some of the RGB files encoded in the lsl different sizes?
    • Why are the RGBs 24b?
    • If you use an arbitrary 24b colour in an RGB, possibly influencing transparency, how do you know which texture the SOW engine will render in game? (The SDK gives no info about how the lsl is used, just says it is encoded and not modable). There are 12 textures in the data, which again are jpgs.

    Sorry. And thanks if you read this.
    Last edit: 2 years 4 months ago by 52ndOx.
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    2 years 4 months ago - 2 years 4 months ago #29 by Biondo

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  • Hi 52nd,

    Where do you read those roads values? In the bmp? A road, in those maps, should have only 100/105 and 110/115 values iirc

    About the four RGB files I did like you. If the bmp is 2048*2048 then I change all the RGB to that resolution to avoid problems when you copy/paste something.

    You have to think of RGB as layers where you draw textures. So you can draw different texture on the same spot to achieve a particular feature, for example a swamp where you can mix grass and water.

    If you open pr6 and click on Edit>Colormap or Edit>texture generator, you can see to what texture the RGB refers. You'll see the first three textures then rgb1; it means that the first is related to red, the second to green and so on. Then other three textures and rgb2 etc..

    You can also change textures from here.

    The darker and pure you make a colour, the darker and less faded will be the texture.

    I suppose the different size are to save memory space and to blur a bit the edges of the textures.

    Others map modders here could be more precise than me
    Last edit: 2 years 4 months ago by Biondo.
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    2 years 4 months ago - 2 years 4 months ago #30 by Davinci

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  • Phew ;)
    My mission now, understand the inter-relationships between SOWWL engine and the 5 map files, plus the Power Render and the RGB/texture files that end up in the lsl that the SOWWL engine uses. :whistle:

    Exactly, I could Not have said it any better!

    All this is about an arbitrary field at the junction of two roads in a part of the map.

    in the game it looks like:


    In the bmp (which is 2048*2048 in 8b grayscale) it looks like:


    There is a resemblance, but already problems.
    • There are only 2 values, 210 and 215, should be field and plowed field according to the csv, but 3 terrain types - which must be then coming from the lsl.
    • There are values that are not listed in the csv, eg the roads are 39,41,43,45 and the only one listed is supposed to be water, as shown here:


    How can the bmp contain values not defined in the csv?

    The Pictures are quite small, sort of hard to see clearly, it appears that there are two different Greyscale Colors used to represent two different types of terrain, and the darker color appears to be a bush \ weed line separating the fields.

    The Greyscale Color 210 and 215 can have up too five different terrain graphics assigned to them, an example would be if you wanted the grass to not appear as a single texture. But, a sort of mixed effect.

    The Greyscale Colors - 39,41,and 43 - are most likely faded colors that were used to represent another color at the time of design.

    I think that it depends on which type of program was used to Edit the MapName.bmp file - Photoshop Saved bmp files have never faded as far as I know.

    If the Colors are not defined - they will produce an Error - that can be viewed in the (Log) file, so if there are thousands of bad-Colors - the log file will be quite long.

    So we come to the 4 RGBs, which get compiled into the lsl.
    There are problems ;)
    • They are jpgs?? A great way to lose data in compression and decompression.
    • They are not the same size?? Some are 1024*1024 and others 2048*2048. Which means coordinates cannot match!
    • They are saved as 24b?? This allows for millions of colours when it seems only 12 textures are allowed
    So I make them all 2048*2048.

    True, No matter what you do, those (Jpeg) files will fade every time you work on them, and the design of the Maps requires that you Open and Close them multiple times. Almost No way around that particular problem.
    The different sizes will cause the game to stretch the files, so it is better to make all of them the same size. The downside to that is that it is going to make the ( lsl ) file larger in size.

    True, there are quite a lot of different colors of RGB - that will still work, the game will sort of fade the colors ( terrain ) if a different shade of RGB is used. Black and Grey can also be used in the RGB files. It will also just fade the textures that are displayed.
    One looks like this:

    I don't understand the effect of these very subtle deviations from standard in the channels.

    I am probably not explaining this right, But different shades of RGB will still draw the texture that you assign to it, but it will NOT draw it with the same intensity, a lighter Red will draw the terrain a lighter shade, sort of a faded look.

    An example would be that the grass is only a solid green on a golf course, in a regular field, the grass might be green, but different shades of green, yellow and brown.

    Then there is this one:

    This seems to add some kind of variation, but the blue has many different values, so what texture or textures does it reference?

    The texture that is assigned here!



    This Menu - dictates which texture is assigned to Red, Green, or Blue - for that particular RGB file.

    Similarly here:

    This contains many variation of red, blue and green. Are they just transparency levels for again different texture overlays?

    Used to break up the terrain, so that it doesn't appear like a golf course, different textures to change the appearance of the ground.

    And the last file here:

    Has the road network, but again includes something else.
    And the black is not black but very dark grey (1,1,1)

    The Red - appears to be a sort of darker shade of dirt used to separate the fields, and also appear outside of the road.
    The green is the road as you have already stated, not sure what the blue is used for in that picture.

  • How can there be grayscale values in the bmp which don't seem to have a terrain type in the csv?
  • Why are some of the RGB files encoded in the lsl different sizes?
  • Why are the RGBs 24b?
  • If you use an arbitrary 24b colour in an RGB, possibly influencing transparency, how do you know which texture the SOW engine will render in game? (The SDK gives no info about how the lsl is used, just says it is encoded and not modable). There are 12 textures in the data, which again are jpgs.
  • [/ul]

    1) Would be a faded color which will result in an error, there is not supposed to be any colors used in the (bmp) that is not defined the the (csv).
    2) Just another way of doing the (lsl) file, remember that each Modder learned how to edit the Maps on their own, there is NOT a single way of doing this.
    3) No idea!
    4) The Picture above will display how the textures are assigned, and to which RGB Color they are assigned to.

    davinci

    The only true logic is that, there is no true logic!
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    Last edit: 2 years 4 months ago by Davinci.
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